The House Oversight subcommittee on national security spent the morning hearing from witnesses who pushed for more transparency in how the government handles reports of unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP).
Both the witnesses and lawmakers accused the Pentagon of covering up information about its UAP program, and called for transparent and centralized reporting databases moving forward.
David Grusch, a whistleblower who has accused the government of withholding information related to UFOs, made a series of explosive claims but often told lawmakers he could only provide specifics in a confidential setting.
Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-Wis.), who chaired the hearing, said he looked forward to collecting more information and drafting legislation to expose more of what the government knows.
Luna says lawmakers seeking SCIF meeting with witnesses
Rep. Anna Paulina Luna (R-Fla.) said a group of Republican and Democratic lawmakers will seek a closed meeting with Wednesday’s witnesses to discuss confidential information.
She said Republicans on the committee along with Rep. Jared Moskowitz (D-Fla.) signed onto the request for a sensitive compartmented information facility (SCIF).
“Not only do we have the support of he chairman, but they’re going to get a nice letter from Congress,” she said of the request, adding they would “defund” officials if their request was rejected.
Former intelligence official David Grusch made a series of explosive claims about the government covering up evidence of UAPs, but repeatedly told lawmakers he could not share details in a public setting.
Burchett says hearing is ‘first of many’ on UAPs
Rep. Tim Burchett (R-Tenn.) said Wednesday’s hearing was the “first of many” on the government’s handling of information related to UAPs.
“It’s very multifaceted, we’ve got so many ideas now, like I said this is just the first of many,” he told reporters after the hearing. “It’s still an uphill battle though.”
Burchett has accused the Pentagon and intelligence agencies of hiding information on UAPs, and said the hearing would help reveal the “cover up.”
“We’re going to formulate some more ideas, we’ll get some legislation out of this,” he told reporters.
“What’s gonna happen now, the floodgates — other people are going to say you know, I’ve got some information I’d like to come swear in, and that’s what we’re going to start doing.”
Grothman says he expects hearing to spur legislation
In closing remarks, Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-Wis.) said he believes legislation will come out of the hearing.
“It was a very illuminating hearing,” he said. “Obviously, I think several of us are going to look forward to getting some answers in a more confidential setting. I assume some legislation will come out of this.”
“I think we are going to want to look into what we can do to make more of this information public,” he added. “I think there’s certainly a time period after which it should always be made public and people have been concerned about these issues, like I said, since I was in high school.”
Witnesses say UAPs ‘potentially’ pose national security risk
All three witnesses said UAPs “potentially” pose national security risks in response to questions from Rep. Andy Ogles (R-Tenn.).
“Do you feel based off of your experience and information that you’ve been privy to that these UAPs provide an existential threat to the national security of the United States?” Ogles asked witnesses.
All three witnesses — former fighter pilot Ryan Graves of Americans for Safe Airspace, former intelligence official David Grusch and former Navy pilot David Fravor — said UAPs “potentially” pose a risk.
Each of them also said that it was possible that the UAPs were collecting reconnaissance information, probing U.S. capabilities and testing for vulnerabilities in the U.S. current systems.
Ogles then asked Graves and Fravor if they could have defended themselves if the UAP encounters turned hostile.
“Absolutely not,” Graves answered.
First-term member says hearing ‘most bipartisan conversation’ he’s had
Rep. Robert Garcia (D-Calif.) lauded the hearing as the most bipartisan conversation he’s been a part of while in Congress.
“Today’s hearing was both important but also serious,” he said, thanking the subpanel chairman for running a fair hearing.
“I’m a freshman member of Congress and I’ve only been here for seven months, but this is by far the most bipartisan conversation and discussion that I’ve seen happen in the Congress,” he added.
UAP evidence is ‘overclassified,’ former Navy pilot says
Former Navy pilot David Fravor told Congress that he believes the U.S. government is too heavy handed with its classification of video, images and witness statements surrounding UAPs.
“In my opinion … things are overclassified,” Fravor told the House Oversight subpanel.
He said many videos and images of UAPs taken by the U.S. government or employees are quickly classified as Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information (TS/SCI).
“They’re overclassified, and as soon as they do that they go in a vault and then you all have to look for them,” Fravor told lawmakers.
Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.) then asked witnesses if there were other methods the Pentagon or intelligence agencies used to keep information secret.
Former Navy pilot Ryan Graves said the U.S. government was “not encouraging reporting” of any encounters or sightings of UAPs.
Graves later estimated that only 5 percent of UAP sightings are reported.
Ocasio-Cortez asks witnesses where lawmakers should look for more information
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) asked the witnesses where should she look for more information on secret UAP programs.
“We only have five minutes today but for the record, if you were me, where would you look? Titles, programs, departments, regions, if you could just name anything,” she asked.
The three witnesses offered brief responses.
“I’d be happy to give you that in a closed environment, I can tell you specifically,” former intelligence official David Grusch responded.
Retired Cmdr. David Fravor said he has told people that “you have to know where to look.”
“They’re not going to divulge it to you because the classification levels, but if you know where to look and who to talk to, which is exactly where Mr. Grusch could point you, then you have them,” Fravor said.
“I was an operator, so I was depending on folks like Mr. Grusch to do that homework,” former fighter pilot Ryan Graves of Americans for Safe Aerospace added.
Lawmaker presses Grusch on claims of misdirecting funds to UFO programs
Former intelligence whistleblower David Grusch suggested that U.S. aerospace corporations were siphoning off government funds.
Referring to Grusch’s claims that there had been misappropriation of Pentagon funds, Rep. Jared Moskowitz (D-Fla.) asked if that meant “there is money in the budget that is set to go to a program but it doesn’t and it goes to something else?”
“Yes. I have specific knowledge of that. Yep,” Grusch said.
“Do you think U.S. corporations are overly overcharging for certain tech they’re selling to the U.S. government and that additional money is going to programs?” Moskowitz pressed.
“Correct,” Grusch said.
Former Navy pilot tells of life-changing UAP encounter
Former Navy pilot David Fravor told Congress that his UAP experience had been brief but life-changing — in ways that perhaps only a fighter pilot can truly understand.
“It was it was amazing to see. I told my buddy I wanted to fly it,” Fravor said.
“I’m not like a UFO fanatic — that’s not me. But I will tell you that what we saw with four sets of eyes over a five minute period, still, there’s nothing we have nothing close to it,” he said. “It’s just an incredible technology.”
In 2004, Fravor was part of a squadron that witnessed a UAP drop from 80,000 feet — nearly twice the ceiling of their F-18 fighter jets — down to the surface of the ocean, where another craft seemed to be churning up the sea. Then it raced off past their rendezvous point three times faster than their jets, he says.
Witness ‘absolutely’ believes government is in possession of UAPs
Former intelligence official David Grusch said that he “absolutely” believes the U.S. government is in possession of UAPs.
“Absolutely, based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years,” Grusch replied.
He added that he knows “the exact locations” of where this technology is “and those locations were provided to the inspector general and some of which, to the intelligence committees.”
Grusch is a former national reconnaissance officer representative for the Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Task Force at the Pentagon.
Garcia, witnesses say there needs to be a central reporting system for UAP
Rep. Robert Garcia (D-Calif.), along with the witnesses, said there needs to be a central reporting system for UAP.
“I think you need to develop something that allows you a central point to collect the data in order to investigate,” retired Cmdr. David Fravor told the committee.
Former fighter pilot Ryan Graves of Americans for Safe Aerospace said he agreed with Fravor’s comments, adding that “the commercial pilots that have reached out to me through American for Safe Airspace doing so because they don’t feel there’s another way for them to report the safety issue.”
Graves also said that civilian reporting of UAP should “as sensor-centric operation in order to make it as objective as possible” to make it reliable.
Garcia said that an outcome of this hearing should be developing a system for reporting UAP.
“And I think one of the clear outcomes of this hearing already, is that there has to be a safe and transparent reporting process for pilots — both on the commercial side and the military side — to be able to report UAPs in a way that’s also transparent, but also understands the scope of our national security interests,” Garcia said.
Whisteblower alleges retaliation for claiming UAP coverup
Former intelligence whistleblower David Grusch said that he has faced serious reprisals for his claims that the Pentagon has a secret plan to retrieve and reverse engineer UFOs.
“There were certain colleagues of mine that were brutally administratively attacked,” Grusch told Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.).
“Personally, have you heard anyone been murdered?” Rep. Tim Burchett (R-Tenn.) asked.
“I have to be careful asking that question. I directed people with that knowledge to the appropriate authorities,” Grusch said.
Garcia urges committee to keep an ‘open mind’ on UAPs
Rep. Robert Garcia (D-Calif.) urged his colleagues to keep an “open mind” at the start of the hearing.
“Now, I know I certainly have a lot of questions. I know that all the members of our committee do as well,” said Garcia, the ranking member of the subpanel.
“We should come to this hearing with an open mind and we should not let our existing ideas restrict us on either side.”
The hearing will not explore classified information, but Garcia said questions remain and people want to see data and information.
“The enormous interest in the hearing today underscores the importance of a fair and open look at the evidence from witnesses who can share their unique perspectives,” he said.
Former F-18 pilot offers hearing’s first eyewitness account
Ryan Graves of Americans for Safe Aerospace gave the committee’s first eyewitness UFO sighting.
In 2014, he said, as an F-18 pilot in the Red Rippers, their squadron was “split by UAP” during a training mission near Virginia Beach.
The object was dark gray or black inside of a clear sphere, 15 feet in diameter, and came within 50 feet of the lead aircraft, he said.
The mission commander ended the flight, and the squadron submitted a safety report; but things ended there.
This story is more common than we expect, Graves said; more than 30 witnesses had told his group about similar sightings. “Often they are veterans with decades of flying experience,” he added.
Former Navy pilot says ‘stigma’ around UAP ‘challenges national security’
Former Navy pilot Ryan Graves in his opening statement said that the “stigma” around UAP “challenges national security.”
“As we convene here, UAP are in our airspace, but they are grossly under reported,” Graves said. “These sightings are not rare or isolated. They are routine. Military aircrew and commercial pilots, trained observers whose lives depend on accurate identification, are frequently witnessing these phenomenon.”
“The stigma attached to UAP is real and powerful and challenges national security,” he continued. “It silences commercial pilots who fear professional repercussions, discourages witnesses. It is only compounded by recent government claims questioning the credibility of eyewitness testimony.”
Democrat says Pentagon hiding info on ‘unexplained’ incidents
Rep. Jared Moskowitz (D-Fla.) said that he believes that the Pentagon is hiding evidence on the nearly 200 UAP incidents that the ODNI list as “unexplained.”
He was referring to the 2022 report by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI), which collated the known instances of UAP sightings that “appear to have demonstrated unusual flight characteristics or performance capabilities.”
While many sightings were explainable, the ODNI report found 171 of these fell into a broad “other” bucket.
“I believe more information is known about those instances,” he said. “It’s time for Congress to reinsert ourselves”
Burchett: ‘We’re going to uncover the cover-up’
In his opening comments at today’s UAP hearings, Rep. Tim Burchett (R-Tenn.) linked the debate over the phenomena to a damaging culture of secrecy that he said had diminished public trust.
“Today we’re not just deliberating over the existence of UAP, we’re debating the principles that govern our republic,” Burchett said — in particular, the principle of transparency.
“We need to tell the folks at the Pentagon, they work for U.S. government. We can’t trust a government that does not trust his people,” he added.
“We’re not bringing little green man or flying saucers into the hearing. Sorry to disappoint about half y’all. We’re just going to get to the facts,” he said. “We’re going to uncover the cover-up.”
Grothman says UFO hearing is ‘most exciting subcommittee’ this week
Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-Wis.) opened the hearing by welcoming members to the “most exciting” subcommittee hearing in Congress this week.
“Good morning and welcome to the most exciting subcommittee in Congress this week… for discussion of unidentified anomalous phenomenon (UAP),” Grothman, chair of the subcommittee, said during opening remarks.t
Grothman also thanked members of the military, including the witnesses they will hear from today, for “sharing their stores and how they’ve engaged” with UAPs.
“Congress should work to ensure that knowledge is not driven by fear. Today we are not just debating the existence of UAPs,” he said.
“We are deliberating on the principles that define our Republic, which is a commitment to transparency and accountability. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. about ways we can improve government efficiency and openness when it comes to UAPs.”
Witnesses at the hearing today include:
- Ryan Graves, Executive Director, Americans for Safe Aerospace
- Rt. Commander David Fravor, Former Commanding Officer, Black Aces Squadron, U.S. Navy
- David Grusch, Former National Reconnaissance Officer Representative, Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Task Force, Department of Defense
Here’s what scientists say about whistleblower claims that Pentagon has evidence of alien crashes
Wednesday’s hearing will feature former Air Force and intelligence official David Grusch, who claims the government is withholding information about a secret “crash retrieval” program involving unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP).
Scientists told The Hill that the trouble with these claims by Grusch and others isn’t that they’re impossible.
It’s that while they are compelling, they give the scientific apparatus almost nothing to work with.
UFO whistleblower to go before House panel
Frustrated lawmakers are demanding more information on UFOs and UAPs, which grew as a topic of discussion after an Air Force veteran and former member of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency claimed that the government is holding back information about UFOs. That individual, David Grusch, is among the witnesses slated to testify.