Former Fox News host Tucker Carlson aggressively pressed former Vice President Mike Pence Friday about how he’d characterize the events of Jan. 6, 2021, when a pro-Trump mob invaded the Capitol, forced the evacuation of lawmakers and interrupted the counting of electoral votes in the 2020 election.
The questioning by Carlson, who described the events of Jan. 6 as “mostly peaceful chaos” while at Fox News, underscored how Pence’s break with former President Trump that day will be a defining feature of his campaign.
Many of Trump’s supporters have never forgiven Pence, who was hanged in effigy that day, for his actions on Jan. 6, and it is a major problem in his quest for the presidency.
Carlson opened his questioning of Pence by asking if the former vice president thought the attack on the Capitol was an “insurrection.”
“All I know for sure having lived through it at the Capitol is that it was a tragic day,” Pence said at a Family Leader event in Des Moines, Iowa. “I’ve never used the word insurrection, Tucker, over the past two years, but it was a riot that took place at the Capitol that day.”
Republican presidential candidate and former Vice President Mike Pence fields questions from former Fox News Television personality Tucker Carlson at the Family Leadership Summit on July 14, 2023 in Des Moines, Iowa.
Pence, who was whisked away to safety as rioters stormed the Capitol to try and stop the certification of President Biden’s electoral victory, said he witnessed firsthand the dozens of police officers who were assaulted that day and the “tragic loss of life” that occurred.
Carlson asked Pence who specifically he was referring to when he spoke of the loss of life, and Pence mentioned Ashli Babbitt, a protester who was shot in the Capitol by law enforcement and whose death has become a rallying point for Trump and other conservatives.
“I just think it was a tragic moment, without question,” Pence said. “But I have to tell you that seeing people assaulting law enforcement officers, smashing windows, breaking into the Capitol building, it infuriated me. And it’s very likely that the restraint that was shown by law enforcement officers saved lives that day.”
Pence presided over the certification that day. Trump, who spoke to a crowd about the election being stolen from him ahead of the Capitol invasion, had pressed his vice president to overturn the results of the election.
Pence said he had no power under the Constitution to do so, a position that has been widely accepted by policymakers in both parties as well as constitutional scholars.
Pence received tepid applause during the appearance with Carlson as he said that “day of tragedy became a triumph of freedom” and that he did his duty under the Constitution.
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He received an even more muted response from the crowd as he told Carlson that Trump’s words that day were “reckless.”
“I believe whatever his intentions in that moment, it endangered me and my family and everyone that was at the Capitol that day,” Pence said. “I believe history will hold him accountable for that.”
Those who marched on the Capitol that day were heard chanting “hang Mike Pence” because of his perceived disloyalty to Trump.
Pence launched his campaign for the 2024 Republican nomination last month by arguing that Trump’s behavior around Jan. 6 should be disqualifying for another White House term.
Trump spent weeks claiming the 2020 election was stolen before Jan. 6 attack, and he has been criticized by members of both parties for riling up the crowd that day. Some of Carlson’s former colleagues at Fox were among those who on Jan. 6 sought to get Trump to calm down the mob that had overwhelmed police and entered the Capitol.
Trump criticized Pence on Twitter Jan. 6 for lacking courage as the then-vice president was being escorted to safety.
Pence has been consistently polling in single digits nationally since entering the race, well behind Trump and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R). But Pence’s campaign believes his message and personal story will resonate particularly with Iowa voters, who align more with Pence’s traditional conservative views and focus on his faith. The Iowa caucus is scheduled for Jan. 15, 2024.